Cullen Jennings' Notes from IETF 63 Informal P2P SIP BOF


There was substantial interest in the topic of P2P SIP and around 125 people showed up. It is clear that work in this area is being done by many people including, universities, start up companies, small and large established vendors, and large service providers.

The group discussed some deployment scenarios that might be able to take advantage of P2P technology including:

  1. Emergency Ad-Hoc: Disaster and emergencies situations where connectivity to the global internet, including DNS root servers, was not possible
  2. SOHO - Small offices or home networks where the devices discover the other nearby devices and can perform services across them
  3. Large Scale: Networks with no central server so that they are very cheap to operate and run but support many users

The group discussed some problems where P2P approaches might be a good solution including:

  1. Distributed Location Server: Use a distributed P2P system to distribute the register/location server information
  2. Configuration Storage: Store configuration details for a phone across the networks
  3. Voice Mail
  4. Address Book Storage
  5. Reputation Systems
  6. Gateway
  7. Media Relay: (Distributed TURN servers)
  8. Media Anonymization

Some issues that people would like to work on:

  1. Scale: Both scaling up and down
  2. Reliability
  3. Federations
  4. Trust Models
  5. Identity
  6. Namespaces
  7. Data Storage

All the systems described had somewhat common approaches in that they were using DHTs as the underlying approach. Attention should be paid to when it is the right time to use P2P technology and when other approaches such as DNS and Multicast can provide a better solution.

Interesting comment that we should publish some of this before it all gets patented.

The HIP folks has formed both an IRTF and an IETF group. The folks here should probably go look at these to gain a better understanding of the function of both.

Next steps: There was some talk about what it might take to form a IETF working group. There was substantially more talk about forming a IRTF Research Group. There was not much feeling that this overlapped with the interests of the current p2prg. Many people has a strong desire to have a full day metering where we could discuss this work in depth. Having this in Vancouver just before the November IETF meeting seemed like the most realistic possibility and many people said they would come to this if it happened.

Henry called for volunteers to help with this and help manage this, And offered to provide help himself. Everyone provided mutual encouragement to join the email list and send some comments.

Raw Notes Below

David Bryan presented a few slides on what he is working on. Uses a DHT based on sip message to build a distributed a Very many different ways that you could implement this

Work to be done

Use case

Problems Mentioned:

There is page - community page. Glad to add stuff from everyone to page.

Phillip Mathews - Nimcat

Henning: 3 ways he has herd of to map


Marc Bailly
France Telecom
Working P2P SIP. Understanding distribution of services. Use separation of SIP and DHT layer. Looking at IMS style services.

Henning's system:
Do ICE on each node
Use DHT to build a registration table

What can we use P2P for

Nick Papadoglou Vodaphone looked at P2P for ringbones and voicemail.
Always run into security and trust problems. Also looked at IMS and p2p for service discovery. Looking at where can I find this server or distributed finding out ring tones.


Separation of basic uses and advanced user. Diagnosis and how to debug a P2P system How does administrator deal with it.

It is hard to debug P2P system because messages are all over places.

Jonathan Rosenberg - don't have to do everything P2P..

What's next:

There is a lot of interest in this. Document this soon before it all gets patented. Henry S. is willing to write up notes to make them understandable for people who were not at the meeting.

Very roughly 125 people

Eunsoo Shim - Proposal to get a SIP P2P WG and start working on charter for BOF.

Henning had proposal of IRTF group.

Gonzales explaining about HIP. There is an IRTF HIP group and a HIP WG. May want to look at this model.

Concern about IRTF - there is no end to research. Progress is very slow.

Need more time to talk about points of commonality. Workshop, interim meeting. Concrete proposal to have 1.5 day workshop around Vancouver. Perhaps some demos of real things.

May be fairly close to experimental agreement -

John from Panasonic - P2p WG is chaired by co-author of JXTA. Do not have impression. - modeling of HIP approach. IRTF is very long term research thing. Spending next few months for BOF that could happen next year makes sense.

Current p2prg is all over the place. We are focusing very specific problems need faster better thing.

Trying to bring carrier in this effort

At the p2prg at IETF 61, it was less than 10 people. It was place to meet and present what they were doing.

Henry ask for some volunteers to spread the talent and get some project management to get this done.

Things to do

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